We could stop credit and debit card fraud overnight, but I need martins help.

Home-We could stop credit and debit card fraud overnight, but I need martins help.

We could stop credit and debit card fraud overnight, but I need martins help.

I've just emailed the following to martin, do you think I will get a reply?

PS, don't ask what it is, I won't tell you.

HI There,

Im a great fan of martin and his cause for the greater consumer good! I have an idea which would be fairly simple for the major banks to implement and should cut credit card fraud by about 80% - 90% overnight. However, me being just a normal hard working person no one will listen to me so I was wondering with the help of martin and his contacts he could talk to the banks and get them to listen.

If hes genuinely interested please get him to spare me 30 seconds of his time on the phone. Once Ive told him Im sure that he and everyone else would say man, why didnt we think of that before!

I look forward to your reply.

why not post it up here?

Look into it yourself and think of the glory you could get......:D

I could but with martin's help he could probably get the banks to actually listen.

If the banks withdrew all CC and Debit Cards, all CC - Debit Card Fraud would cease, however it wouldn't be very useful.:rotfl:

You will never stop CC & DC fraud, while humans are still involved in the process somewhere there will always be fraud

A photo on each card might help of the owner

cash only, with GPS chips in each- all notes all purchases logged, then cross referred with any suspected criminals, or bebefit claimants..

why not post it up here?

Because the OP thinks it will earn them a nice little but of money.

If passports can be faked.......

do you think I will get a reply? No.

You haven't given any details whatsoever, which gives the impression that you don't have any.

I certainly wouldn't reply to such a message if it ended up in my inbox (assuming it dodged the spam filters of course.)

I've already tried to obtain Martin's help/support with a system already in use and acknowledged by one Credit Reference Agency, and an ID Theft Expert as being a very good deterrent. Unfortunately Martin has still got to get back to me.

See www.freeidprotection.co.uk (http://www.freeidprotection.co.uk) Whereby you can use your biometric without the need for a database, not to prove you are who you say you are, but to deter someone else from pretending to be you.

I've also posted Card Fraud -How to beat most of it in 2007. (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=484305&highlight=card+fraud) Check it out.

Believe me this system would work very very well, OK, there are a couple of draw backs to it but it would make using someone elses card or cloning a card absolutely useless.

Tattoo on the bum?

Tattoo on the bum?
What - of the card? Just think about the pain trying to shove it into the card reader :eek:

Maye we could do away with cards altogether though and just be barcoded? Anyone who makes a lot of transactions could have a "cat flap" installed in their trousers for faster access ;)

'Please swipe your bottom down the side of the card reader..........' :rotfl:

I could but with martin's help he could probably get the banks to actually listen.

You may have missed most of Martin's work over the past year, but he is hardly popular with the banks!

Seriously though, I would be amazed if you have thought of something that has not already been mooted. People are paid a lot of money to look at things like this, why do you feel that your solution is unique?

See www.freeidportection.co.uk (http://www.freeidportection.co.uk) Whereby you can use your biometric without the need for a database, not to prove you are who you say you are, but to deter someone else from pretending to be you.

James - mis-spelt link.

Martin might not be popular with the banks, but he has big influences in the media world and could get people to listen.

As far as I know it's not been tried or looked at.

Ooo, i've just found a link to a site that VISA in america have actually been trialing it, maybe they actually read the letter I sent them!

It would make using someone else card USELESS

It is a good idea. Well Done.

The only drawback I can think of is that the fraudster could either steal your phone or they contact the Card Provider and request a number change to a Pay as You Go that they are using, then you wouldn't be aware of the transaction.

But as they say, every little helps.

But then you would get a text to your old number to verify the change in phone, and fraudsters are not going to steal your phone to use your card. Too much hastle, your phone goes missing, you cancel the card, simple.

My mum's boss loses his phone at least once a month, usually more. He is often out of the country when he does this. Is he supposed to cancel (and therefore be without) his card everytime this happens?

OK. so I might aswell tell you what it is now.

Simple, Every time you make a purchase or cash withdrawl from your card you get a text message to your mobile with the full details of the transaction. If you haven't made the transaction you can reply to the message with a simple code to put a stop on the card.

The only way a fraudster would be able to use a dodgy card would be to either sign up for it and give the bank a false mobile number or hack the bank to change the number, but even then you would get an alert to the old number first.

ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

Indeed its not. Its not quite the no-brainer that you think it is though.

There are costs for any fraud countermeasure. The bank needs to build a business case that demonstrates that it saves more than it costs. Your assertion that this could cut 80-90% overnight seems very impressive. Do you have evidence to back this up or is it simply hyperbole?

The technology already exists for this type of solution - check out Adeptra (http://adeptra.com/images/newscoverage/nilson%20feb_08%20issue.pdf). Some UK banks are already using it to place automated outbound telephone calls to customers when suspicious transactions are detected. SMS has its place, but it isn't perfect - for starters timely delivery cannot be guaranteed. Its therefore only good for detecting fraud after the fact - it could never become part of the real time authourisation process.

Ultimately, the bank wants to balance customer convenience against an acceptable level of fraud loss. This kind of solution can help, but its no panacea.

'Please swipe your bottom down the side of the card reader..........' :rotfl:

What if it won't fit??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :D

Unfortunately not every cardhodler has a mobile or is mobile coverage even in the UK 100%.

What if your card/pin and Mobile were all nicked together?

What about overseas transactions?

Just typing as I think.

Anyone any thoughts on my previous post

Card Fraud and how to beat most of it? (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=484305&highlight=card+fraud)

My mum's boss loses his phone at least once a month, usually more. He is often out of the country when he does this. Is he supposed to cancel (and therefore be without) his card everytime this happens?or he could learn to stop losing his phone all the time?

A photo on each card might help of the owner

This was adopted some years ago by one of the big Scottish banks and a few smaller Building Societies. I did read that the Scottish bank did have a huge reduction in fraud on its cards, then they did away with the card. I had a card from N & P (if you're old enough ....................) with my photo on it until they were taken over.

I have always been very cynical about the banks attitude to fraud, I am convinced they they actually like a certain level - perhaps it enables them to hide other things under that heading ?

This was adopted some years ago by one of the big Scottish banks and a few smaller Building Societies. I did read that the Scottish bank did have a huge reduction in fraud on its cards, then they did away with the card. I had a card from N & P (if you're old enough ....................) with my photo on it until they were taken over.

I have always been very cynical about the banks attitude to fraud, I am convinced they they actually like a certain level - perhaps it enables them to hide other things under that heading ?

yeah RBS done it, my mum had her photo on her switch card, except hardly anyone looked at the signature strip let alone the photo

Simple, Every time you make a purchase or cash withdrawl from your card you get a text message to your mobile with the full details of the transaction. If you haven't made the transaction you can reply to the message with a simple code to put a stop on the card.

Dead battery.

No signal.

Network supplier suspended your mobile account.

Sick of spam texts.

Time delay between transaction and message.

Cost of the messages.

Problem server-side in sending them.

Annoyance factor from customers continually receiving texts while shopping.

Those who don't/won't own a mobile.

Time delay between losing a card, and recognising fraud on said card.

Willful (identity) theft.

ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! Indeed, it isn't. Overcoming all the problems (of which I mention only a few above,) however, will be.

It'd cost more to implement than it would recover (not save,) in fraudulent transactions.

It won't happen. Nice idea, but it wouldn't work.

What if it won't fit??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :D
Don't be so naiive - such an implementation would require them to be standardised :rolleyes:

Years ago a company my husband worked for mooted a system which would have cut (not eliminated)card fraud. The banking fraternity collectively decided that they were not prepared to pay the upfront costs,even though they acknowledged it would be cost effective over the years.....they decided to take the fraud,and pay as they went.

I believe the OP didn't intend for the SMS service to become part of the transaction process, but is there to alert you that a transaction had been made on your card. Therefore if it was a transaction you didn't think you authorised, you could contact the card provider to find out more information on the transaction to make a decision whether it was you who made the transaction or someone else. In this case, I don't think any of the issues like dead battery and no signal are factors, cause without this service you wouldn't be alerted of the transactions at all - hence being alerted by text a few hours later is better than nothing.

I do think if they were to implement this service it should be opt in/opt out - not compulsary.Most users would most likely be sick of all the text messages filling their inbox.

Hi Bitterstar.

You are right, lots of people here slate the idea straight away, like i said it would help combat a percentage of fraud, the reasons above make up for a percentage of this, one being people that don't have a mobile.

The people who say things like, I dont want texts cluttering up my inbox obviously really dont care about card fraud. I would rather get a text a few times a day than have to go through the utter grief of having to prove that I didn't make certain transactions and being without hundreds if not thousands of pounds for weeks on end whilst they "look into it".

And some of you are right, the banks really don't give a shoot about fraud. There is NO WAY to notify anyone of a card being used fraudulently. Believe me as a merchant I get my fair share of dodgy orders and at leat 50% of they the card is still working, but you can phone the merchant services, banks, card companies and NONE of them do anything about it.

Getting back to the matter in hand. Yes it would be optional, but personally I would opt for it. If someone was using one of my cards I would like to put a stop to it asap.

I know there is a LOT more that could be done to combat card fraud,, but whether the banks can be arsed to do anything about it is another matter.

Lloyds tsb already do it..im signed up to it..although it is only transactions abroad at the moment.They also text me my balance on a friday at 2pm,as requested.

How about this from BBC's Look North

Video click here. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7040000/newsid_7045300/7045390.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1)

No good for online or telephone transactions though.

No good for some.

My dad for example has a phone but never texts and i dounbt he even knows how to open one. My mum has no phone.

What about joint accounts?? would customer 2 get a message everytime customer 1 made a transaction??

I carry my purse and mobile in my handbag. What if that is snatched??

Can you imagine the amount of staff needed to consistanly update customer records with a number change?? What about the cost of replacing a perfectaly usable card because someone has lost their phone??

Can you imagine the amount of staff needed to consistanly update customer records with a number change??

You should be notifying your credit card company everytime you change your phone number anyway!

LilacPixie

You seem to be missing the point. It's not for everyone, I know that, but that's not to say it wouldn't work for the majority.

And if your bag got snatched, you would cancel your phone and cards anyway!

No good for online or telephone transactions though.

Disagree.

It could and should (if the cardholder wishes to use this system) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7040000/newsid_7045300/7045390.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1) make Internet, Mail Order, and Using your Card to buy goods on the phone an awful lot safer.

Here's how:

The Magstrip and Chip would carry information that the prerson presenting the card uses this system (http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7040000/newsid_7045300/7045390.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1)

Likewise when you provide your card information in any form to any vendor one bit of information would be made available to these vendors - that the genuine cardholder uses this system (http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7040000/newsid_7045300/7045390.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1). Therefore when goods are delivered the carrier/postman would expect (if required by the vendor) a print at point of delivery of these goods.

What the system doesn't do is allow access to ATM's, but how many people use their Credit Card for cash? Using a credit card to obtain cash at an ATM used to be an option pre 2001. i.e. you had to request a PIN.

You could fully use your debit card too using this system. Nothing changes for cash in branch or cash back in shops.

I would suggest that even a visible logo on cards would mean this type of card would be safer to carry than anything at present. This being the whole point of plastic.

Here's what this system provides:

You'd have a deterrent which is proven and works.

You'd have no cardholder liability for any fraud which did occur when purchasing physical goods in any scenario.

And you'd have a means of identifying perpetrators.

Just like Free ID PROTECTION, (http://www.eastscotlandfraudforum.org.uk/thumbprint-protection.asp) this would be YOUR choice if YOU wished to embrace this system. Crooks don't have a choice.

Come on Martin - how about your view on Free ID Protection which deterrs crooks from using your personal info to acquire loans, cards etc. (deterring applicaiton fraud). Why not add it ot Ones Not To Be Missed. And your view too on expanding the system to use with Plastic Cards, Cheques etc????

like i said it would help combat a percentage of fraud, No it wouldn't. It would possibly alert people to the fact their card details were in the possesion of another, but it would take fraudulent activity to alert that fact. Thus it doesn't combat it.

The people who say things like, I dont want texts cluttering up my inbox obviously really dont care about card fraud. People would get so used to receiving those texts, that they'd stop reading them after a while and the fraudulent ones would go unread.
I would rather get a text a few times a day than have to go through the utter grief of having to prove that I didn't make certain transactions and being without hundreds if not thousands of pounds for weeks on end whilst they "look into it". You'd still have to go through that procedure. The sending texts would not change this. (It might reduce the number of transactions, *if* you noticed the first fraudulent one.)

You should be notifying your credit card company everytime you change your phone number anyway!

You appear to be assuming that people give their mobile phone number to the CC company already.

Lloyds tsb already do it..im signed up to it..although it is only transactions abroad at the moment.They also text me my balance on a friday at 2pm,as requested.

With my business account with Lloyds TSB I get a text everyday with my current balance and a note of recent transactions.

This is very useful and I would immediately see if there were any fraudulent transactions on there. In addition I can see if any BACS payments have been made into my account.

I find this facility particularly useful when abroad and do not have access to my laptop to get online to check my accounts. It provides peace of mind that all is well with the account.

Although the OPs idea is not for everyone, I think there is some benefit to what he is suggesting.

What about joint accounts?? would customer 2 get a message everytime customer 1 made a transaction??

There is no such thing as a joint account with a Credit Card. All responsibility for the account lies with the Primary Cardholder, so I would think that the text would just go to the Primary Cardholder.

In fact this is another advantage, the Primary Cardholder becomes immediately alerted to any transactions that an Additional Cardholder may have made.

How often do posters come on here complaining that their ex has run up debts in their name because they had an Additional card ?

People are knocking this idea rather quickly, and whilst there are drawbacks, I still think its not a bad idea and people could be given the option to opt-in for it.

OK. so I might aswell tell you what it is now.

Simple, Every time you make a purchase or cash withdrawl from your card you get a text message to your mobile with the full details of the transaction. If you haven't made the transaction you can reply to the message with a simple code to put a stop on the card.

The only way a fraudster would be able to use a dodgy card would be to either sign up for it and give the bank a false mobile number or hack the bank to change the number, but even then you would get an alert to the old number first.

ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

Well, there is easier system in different coutries and it works fine. Only brits for some reason have allergy to the idea of ID cards!!
For example, in Eastern Europe:
-They have ID cards and they live with it without moaning. Appart from anything else it helps getting drinks in the pub if they look too young and don't drive:-))
-They go to the bank to pick up the cards in person in the bank and proove their ID (sometimes it's pain, but it saves thousands and millions in fraud) - no worry there that the postman nicks your card one day and PIN the next day. If he is your postman believe me he will have your date of birth as well from different letters.
-Some banks issue their cards with picture on it
-Retailers abroad want to see an ID (could be passport) for most card transactions in a shop (I had to show my passport when I paid by card in Spain this summer)

I cannot really see how your ide will help... Can't you already check your statements on the internet every minute of every day and call customer services if the transaction is not genuine???

My bank are not getting my mobile number. End of story.
Once I gave it to A&L, saying "you can only use it to contact me on the status of my application, and that's all, no spam texts please".

What a mistake. Spam spam spam. Endless spam texts.

If my bank forced me to use my mobile phone to do my everyday shopping in the way the OP has described (or indeed any way), I would be changing banks so fast it would make their heads spin.

I think this is a really good idea, well done

Yes some people don't have phone but the majority does so it could be more of an opt in or out system rather than compulsory. Mobile phones ant network coverage are a lot better than they used to be and if the banks and phone operators are working together it might give the phone companies more incentive to improve their signals. I see what you mean but the SMS message doesn't have to be instantaneous as long as it is within a few minutes or so. One down side I did see is that people may say they did not purchase good therefore 'reject' they transaction in order to obtain free good

A one time programmable chip that stores your finger print, it will only work when your finger print is present, with technology advancing as fast as it is today, we could have a wafer thin module that would fit inside a Visa that would read your finger print and a simple software algorithm stored on the chip to verify that you are the authorized card holder...or just do away with plastic and have finger print readers at the point of sale etc, swipe your finger, select the money network i.e. Visa debit or Visa credit linked to your accounts and job done. This would work equally well online as most HP/Sony laptops come with finger print readers as standard.

There is no such thing as a joint account with a Credit Card. All responsibility for the account lies with the Primary Cardholder, so I would think that the text would just go to the Primary Cardholder.

In fact this is another advantage, the Primary Cardholder becomes immediately alerted to any transactions that an Additional Cardholder may have made.

How often do posters come on here complaining that their ex has run up debts in their name because they had an Additional card ?

People are knocking this idea rather quickly, and whilst there are drawbacks, I still think its not a bad idea and people could be given the option to opt-in for it.

The thread is entitled 'we could stop credit and debit card fraud overnight.' I have a debit card on my joint current account. So would I get a text everytime OH takes money out for lunch??. Or would he as the first named on the account get a text saying how much I had spent at the hairdresser or where ever. I doubt my husband would be interested and would probably delete it without opening or if he did read it he would not know if the transaction was genuine or not.

Same goes for our credit cards. He has a mastercard with me as an additional holder and I have a visa with him as additional holder. I do not know in advance what transaction if any he will make and in the same way I don't tell him.

I don't give my mobile number to my bank/credit card company. Rbs used to have it but they used to call me and send texts trying to sell me things despite me being opted our of such calls.

I actually think such a think may encourage rather than deter abuse. No doubt someone somewhere will start texting people with something like:

'Transaction Alert. Your card has been used in the merchant 'amazon' transaction value 264.29. If you did not make this transaction please call 0845 111 1234'.

When you call that number (as no doubt many would) you will be connected to a offshore call center, asked to confirm details, passwords etc told that they will investigate and before you know it you accounts are emptied, cards maxed out and your own real bank won't want to know because it was you who disclosed your personal details :confused:

I think this idea is a bit like communism.. seems reasonable until you actually think about it.

Well, there is easier system in different coutries and it works fine. Only brits for some reason have allergy to the idea of ID cards!!

-Retailers abroad want to see an ID (could be passport) for most card transactions in a shop (I had to show my passport when I paid by card in Spain this summer)

I've never been asked for my passport with a credit card while abroad, and that covers most of Western Europe and some places further afield. Before they brought out chip and pin I used to get odd looks from retailers who wanted me to put my card into the keypad and I had to signal that they needed to use the old "drag and imprint" machines instead.

I don't see how ID cards would possibly combat credit card fraud, and certainly not over the phone or online. I think you're just talking about the risk of having the card stolen when it's issued - banks combat that by making you phone up, with passwords etc, to activate all new cards (it also allows them to try and sell you insurance, but that's another story :mad:)

ASB Bank in New Zealand does something similar if you want to transfer money using phone/internet banking - it sends a text with a code and you have to quote the code to validate the transaction.

The main problems I'd see are:

would consumers bother to sign up or just claim they don't have a mobile? After all, as it stands now, the law makes the credit card company liable for fraudulent transactions - so there's little incentive for consumers to take part
would it be cost effective? The margin that CC companies make on transactions isn't that big. Would the cost of setting up the system, the text message costs, the admin costs and so on outweigh the benefits? After all actual fraud is a small percentage of the millions of transactions that take placeI'm surprised more banks don't implement a system like Cahoot has/had whereby for internet transactions you'd get a one off credit card number for each transaction. That way if the website you used it on was hacked then your number couldn't be reused.

I've never been asked for my passport with a credit card while abroad, and that covers most of Western Europe and some places further afield. Before they brought out chip and pin I used to get odd looks from retailers who wanted me to put my card into the keypad and I had to signal that they needed to use the old "drag and imprint" machines instead.

I don't see how ID cards would possibly combat credit card fraud, and certainly not over the phone or online. I think you're just talking about the risk of having the card stolen when it's issued - banks combat that by making you phone up, with passwords etc, to activate all new cards (it also allows them to try and sell you insurance, but that's another story :mad:)

Well, I was asked for ID many times abroad. Maybe I look dodgy - or you haven't even been abroad.
So you don't see the opportunity here that the retailer can ask to see the ID then?? Especially for larger purchases?
You are right about the shopping over the phone or on the internet though.
Even though I think that person passing credit card details over the phone must be clearly brainless - it't about 20 second job to hack someones phone line.
I think actually that there would have to be many of these protection systems combined together...
I think the system where when you purchase something on-line you have to verify by inputing your password. It's called "verified by VISA" I think..

You should be notifying your credit card company everytime you change your phone number anyway!

i would give them my landline number , not my mobile number

There are 2 types of card fraud. One is when the fraudster has physical access to your card (card-present) and one is when your number and details have been sold / nicked and they use them to buy things online or clone a physical card (card-not-present).

The big headache is card-not-present fraud, since you usually know if your wallet / cards have been stolen and can call to cancel them quickly enough.

The text system FWC has outlined above is certainly one way of reducing this, however with the weaknesses everybody has already pointed out (phone coverage, spam, etc)

The banks are using other methods (VbV, one-time use numbers) which are very secure but also complicated for the average user who just wants his card to work in stores, but also work online.

The only way to finally combat card-not-present fraud is to put something on the card itself which is unique and one-time only. I've seen suggestions for a random SecureID number in addition to your cardnumber. You put that number in when making a purchase online which verifies you actually possess the card.

However, until we can make a number generator light and thin enough to be ON the card itself, it's just another bulky thing to lose. The main problem is the thickness of the battery.

While I'm not knocking the OP's idea, the banks and credit companies HAVE thought about it before, and while it's not ROCKET science, there's a lot more science involved than people think. ;)

Well, I was asked for ID many times abroad. The only time I've ever been asked for ID abroad is for a copy of my passport when checking into hotels.

There is no such thing as a joint account with a Credit Card. All responsibility for the account lies with the Primary Cardholder, so I would think that the text would just go to the Primary Cardholder. Not an advantage then. In fact a distinct disadvantage to the vast majority.

In fact this is another advantage, the Primary Cardholder becomes immediately alerted to any transactions that an Additional Cardholder may have made.

How often do posters come on here complaining that their ex has run up debts in their name because they had an Additional card ? I must admit I've not read many such threads. And comparing that to the number of people who get along perfectly fine with their 2nd card-holder...?

And to take this particular idea a few steps further; is the primary card holder going to be held responsible for any fraud for *not* alerting the CC company to a fraudulent transaction because they've failed to phone/text/whatever the 2nd card holder (or vice versa) on receiving every missive they don't recognise?

This is, once again, transferring the onus from the CC company to the card holder. No thanks.

Not everyone uses a mobile phone

The only time I've ever been asked for ID abroad is for a copy of my passport when checking into hotels.

O.K., so just because you haven't been asked for ID yet, let's not think about the fact that it can help. I didn't realise this thread was to find out who has been asked and who hasn't for ID, I thought this is a thread to discuss whether there is a way to combat fraud...
However, I have been asked namely in Gran Alicante (Spain) this summer and Gambia this spring.
I have not been asked namely in Czech Republic, Germany and Hungary. Haven't been anywhere else in the past 18 months. But if you want me to I will report. when I go somewhere...

Well, I was asked for ID many times abroad. Maybe I look dodgy - or you haven't even been abroad.
So you don't see the opportunity here that the retailer can ask to see the ID then?? Especially for larger purchases?
You are right about the shopping over the phone or on the internet though.
Even though I think that person passing credit card details over the phone must be clearly brainless - it't about 20 second job to hack someones phone line.
I think actually that there would have to be many of these protection systems combined together...
I think the system where when you purchase something on-line you have to verify by inputing your password. It's called "verified by VISA" I think..
Any, why on earth would I say I'd travelled abroad if I hadn't? Yes, I have been abroad many times in my working and personal life, and yes, I always pay on credit cards and always use cards to withdraw foreign currency, because the exchange rate is far better than at any bureau de change. If it's between you looking dodgy and me lying about ever being abroad, then I'm afraid it must be your face :rolleyes:

No, I don't see that it would be of benefit. I would say Britain is one of the most fraud-aware countries and retailers do now check signatures on the odd occasion they accept them - but in signature days, I rarely remember Europeans checking signatures; they seem far more blase about such things. Therefore, I doubt they would bother to ask for the additional ID. To a retailer, if I'm able to enter the correct pin that's about as much as they care most of the time.

It's actually a bit harder than you might think to "hack" into a PSTN line - it's not like in the films where a guy shins up the nearest telephone pole and taps into the line. On the other hand, you should never talk about anything private or personal using Voice over IP (eg Skype) because then the conversation is actually data, just like an email or webpage. Saying that, it's true that passing your details over the phone is the least secure way of transacting because you're relying on the person at the other end not writing it down, repeating it, having the volume turned right up, or even putting you on speakerphone!

Verified by Visa or Mastercard Securecode (??) are a good second layer of defence for online transactions, but a lot don't like the extra complexity. And that, my friends, is where the problem lies - you could introduce the best card security in the world, but the biggest hurdle is getting the public to take it up.I have been asked namely in Gran Alicante (Spain) this summer and Gambia this spring. They didn't take copies of your ID as well did they?

Any, why on earth would I say I'd travelled abroad if I hadn't?

For the very same reason as you were trying to dismiss the fact that I have been asked for my ID... I didn't get why would someone comment on that... Anyway, enough about this, if you want refer to my thread #66. This is not a discussion who, when and where have been asked for ID CARD!!!!!!!

I have to agree with the complexity issue - I cannot sometimes remember the password - mainly whether it was beginning on capital letter, lower case or how many numbers I've put in... Because you cannot have just whichever password you want, but it has to have 2 numbers and bla bla bla...

But unfortunately, if it wasn't complex, it would be probably easy to walk around it..

As for the phone... I don't even pick up my land line so I was realy reffering to mobile phones. And yes, they are extremely easy to hack into.

They didn't take copies of your ID as well did they?
Ha ha ha, now you are being simply childish.
They were checking my name and picture, funny enough.

For the very same reason as you were trying to dismiss the fact that I have been asked for my ID...
Sorry, I wasn't dismissing the fact that you'd been asked for ID, I was saying I've never come across it myself. In Britain, a credit card is often used as ID, and it doesn't seem to me to combat fraud by seeing someone's passport - yes it has a photo on it, but a) not everyone will have their passport with them and b) I can't see shopkeepers being enormously bothered. If they were ever asked "have you seen ID?" they would just say "yes, it looked like him" - unless they have to record the passport/ID number, the benefit is very limited, I think. As I said, it's the take-up that's the problem.

Confirmation by text?

Sounds stupid for all the reasons people have mentioned and it would also add to the crime figures because people will be assaulted for their cards AND phone. I think they've been trialling something similar in Japan too.

The banks don't mind fraud one bit. What they mind is that the general public think they're doing something about it. Chip and PIN is quite good but anything else would be even more annoying. I just simply want my goods and to leave the shop or get off the Internet.

My local town (including Argos) ran a scheme where you had to leave a thumb print on a receipt, I politely told them to !!!! off and mind their own business. They all seemed shocked that I didn't want to help 'combat card fraud'. Yeah, kill all dogs at birth and nobody will be bitten by them.

My local town (including Argos) ran a scheme where you had to leave a thumb print on a receipt, I politely told them to !!!! off and mind their own business. They all seemed shocked that I didn't want to help 'combat card fraud'. Yeah, kill all dogs at birth and nobody will be bitten by them.
You think that's bad - I heard of a nightclub that insisted on fingerprinting you as you went in - the excuse was that it enabled you to be "passed out" without having an inky smudge on your hand. They did promise not to keep them after the night :rolleyes:

I've passed out after quite a few nightclubs and didn't need my prints taking :D

Sorry, I wasn't dismissing the fact that you'd been asked for ID, I was saying I've never come across it myself. In Britain, a credit card (http://www.mint.co.uk/credit-cards.asp) is often used as ID, and it doesn't seem to me to combat fraud by seeing someone's passport - yes it has a photo on it, but a) not everyone will have their passport with them and b) I can't see shopkeepers being enormously bothered. If they were ever asked "have you seen ID?" they would just say "yes, it looked like him" - unless they have to record the passport/ID number, the benefit is very limited, I think. As I said, it's the take-up that's the problem.
Agreed, unless the shopkeepers have to take some information which can confirm they've seen a photo ID (which in itself might have implications for ID fraud) then they've got no real incentive to check too hard; As you say they're always going to say "yeah i checked, it looked like him/her" if asked. *shrug*

Well, there is easier system in different coutries and it works fine. Only brits for some reason have allergy to the idea of ID cards!!

That's because their ID cards and not the same as the proposed UK ID cards. They do not have a National Identity register. Their ID cards are just a card.

Would this have any impact on fraud.Im afraid im not clued up on this ,but i would asume (maybe incorrectly ) that most frauds are only committed once in any way then different card numbers or victims details used.
Surely the more they use a persons card or details the more chance of capture.
I would be curious to know the average amount of times a card is used before being disgaurded if any one knows.
I do think its commendable though that people are trying to find ways to limit this happening.
PP

You think that's bad - I heard of a nightclub that insisted on fingerprinting you as you went in - the excuse was that it enabled you to be "passed out" without having an inky smudge on your hand. They did promise not to keep them after the night :rolleyes:

I've passed out after quite a few nightclubs and didn't need my prints taking :D

Was that club in Birmingham by any chance LongTermLurker ?

I remember getting finger printed to get into the VIP room of some place up there, yep "passed out" once the champagne had been round ;)

Was that club in Birmingham by any chance LongTermLurker ?

I remember getting finger printed to get into the VIP room of some place up there, yep "passed out" once the champagne had been round ;)
No, further north than that. I only read this in the papers, but it was specific to one club and just to get through the door, not into a VIP lounge and it's certainly not the place where you drink champagne (I think you and I are talking about a very different class of nightclub here, Nick ;))

We have more than enough ID here in the UK. The reason we don't like ID cards and havn't needed them up to now is because we didn't have the Nazis running our country by either invitation or force.

The only thing I've seen that looks a potentially good idea is a CC with a built in keypad for online purchases. That's being used the now in fact. Other than that anything I've seen is just fur coat and no nickers.

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