To cut a long story short a friend has had his credit card debited for a disputed amount by a hotelier following a telephone discussion after departure advising he did not accept the disputed amount. On contacting his credit card company he was advised that hoteliers retain the right within the t's & c's to charge outstanding amounts without the card holders specific authorisation. Examples of reasons given were to allow the hotelier to charge for damage or drinks taken from a bar, only discovered after departure.
Frankly I find it difficult to accept that the word of a hotelier is sufficient and that a credit card provider would allow this payment,
I don't need advice on how to deal with either the credit card company or hotelier but would appreciate anyone who can simply expand on the rights of hoteliers and point me in the direction of the relevant law.
Many thanks,
CJ
As far as I am aware it could be considered as theft if your friend left without paying a bill even though he was disputuing it & in some cases the police have been involved.
I can't answer your question but would like to add that this has also happened to me.
The thieveing hotel in my case was the Gables Hotel, Gretna green. I got back from my honeymoon to find they had charged 150 to my card which I disputed I owed them. My card company would do nothing to help so I ended up paying the bill.
thanks newsseller, what reasoning did the cc company give for paying an unauthorised amount and not refunding?
If this is indeed acceptable to cc companies it gives any hotelier the ability to fabricate reasons for charging after guests have departed.
To cut a long story short a friend has had his credit card debited for a disputed amount by a hotelier following a telephone discussion after departure advising he did not accept the disputed amount. On contacting his credit card company he was advised that hoteliers retain the right within the t's & c's to charge outstanding amounts without the card holders specific authorisation. Examples of reasons given were to allow the hotelier to charge for damage or drinks taken from a bar, only discovered after departure.
Frankly I find it difficult to accept that the word of a hotelier is sufficient and that a credit card provider would allow this payment,
I don't need advice on how to deal with either the credit card company or hotelier but would appreciate anyone who can simply expand on the rights of hoteliers and point me in the direction of the relevant law.
Many thanks,
CJ
Maybe you could elaborate as to what tthe dispute is actually over ? The hotelier may be within their rights, maybe not, but based on what you've advised it's impossible to answer.
I don't need help in sorting the dispute, I just need more information on the rights of hoteliers to make unauthorised debits.
They generally have that right, as you WILL have agreed to their terms & conditions when you signed that chit at check-in and when you signed your account when you checked out..and additionally when you booked if you did it online.
Given that most hotel guests check out and scarper before the hotel can check a room for damage, minibar usage etc, it's hardling suprising.
We have a merchant's handbook from Barclaycard at work and there is something in there about charging to a credit card.
I shall check it tomorrow about what they can and can't do, and get back to you.
I don't need help in sorting the dispute, I just need more information on the rights of hoteliers to make unauthorised debits.
But it's only unauthorised in your/his opinion ! The hotelier obviously thinks otherwise !
When checking in and leaving a card imprint/swipe you are in effect giving them authorisation to charge that card for extra expenses/incidentals inccurred. Those expenses have been obviously been incurred, therefore you've been charged, otherwise it could be considered as theft.
Now if you don't want to elaborate, fine, but don't expect a difinitive answer from anyone here. I think you'll find that most areas of consumer law/legalities give examples of what is considered just or unjust.
I don't need help in sorting the dispute, I just need more information on the rights of hoteliers to make unauthorised debits.
Pay per view porn film then....:rolleyes:
I don't need help in sorting the dispute, I just need more information on the rights of hoteliers to make unauthorised debits.
Hoteliers do not have the right to make any unauthorised debits to a card. They are allowed to make authorised debits though. People staying in the hotel give them authorisation to make debits for items / damage not paid for on checkout when they sign the agreement and let their card be swiped.
Oh, so this is why many of them insist to see an "embossed credit card" even if you paid up front by a debit card, "for your convenience"...
There is no need to elaborate to get information on the rights of the hotelier, the circumstances do not change the law.
The reason I don't want to get in to the story is simply so I don't get numerous opinions on the the rights and wrongs of the dispute (it's a separte issue to the info. I requested) and so I don't have to post correcting folks assumptions, such as: 'Those expenses have been obviously been incurred' how can it be obvious to you???? I can also advise that no card was swiped on checking in (details were taken from the card used on checking out).
Maybe I have actually given too much background already!
Oh, so this is why many of them insist to see an "embossed credit card" even if you paid up front by a debit card, "for your convenience"...
I regulalrly stay in large chain hotels (Raddison, Marriot, Crown Plaza etc) each week and am asked for my card on check-in on every occasion. I never give it as there is no requirement to do so.
Hoteliers do not have the right to make any unauthorised debits to a card. They are allowed to make authorised debits though. People staying in the hotel give them authorisation to make debits for items / damage not paid for on checkout when they sign the agreement and let their card be swiped.
Thank's, it seems there may be some importance to whether a registration card is completed and a card is swiped on check in? Believe it or not neither is the case.
There is no need to elaborate to get information on the rights of the hotelier, the circumstances do not change the law.
The reason I don't want to get in to the story is simply so I don't get numerous opinions on the the rights and wrongs of the dispute (it's a separte issue to the info. I requested) and so I don't have to post correcting folks assumptions, such as: 'Those expenses have been obviously been incurred' how can it be obvious to you???? I can also advise that no card was swiped on checking in (details were taken from the card used on checking out).
Maybe I have actually given too much background already!
Hotels DO NOT add extra charges without reason, unless someone has made a simple mistake. By your tone,the lack of information and the hoteliers insistence, that won't be the case.
Too much background :rotfl: There's two sides to every story, not just yours.
For the last time exel1966 there is no story to tell, from either side, I simply want info on the rights of a hotelier, as stated.
If you can't be of help then please go elsewhere for your amusement and stop making silly statements.
I think I'll stay thanks !
Think Withabix might be right about the porn !!
We have a merchant's handbook from Barclaycard at work and there is something in there about charging to a credit card.
I shall check it tomorrow about what they can and can't do, and get back to you.
Thanks Neil, it's appreciated.
There is no need to elaborate to get information on the rights of the hotelier, the circumstances do not change the law.
At the hotel I work at we have a Barclay's merchant account. At check-in guests sign a registration card authorising the hotel to charge the card all charges, including extras and payment for accommodation in event of non-payment by a stipulated party. It will be this "authorisation" the hotel will be using when charging your friend's card.
I don't see why your bank won't accept a chargeback as the first stage of this is simply to ask the hotel why the charge was card. At this point, as it is a customer not present transaction the hotel will be asked to send the reg card and, if applicable, any further evidence - e.g. for damage to a room we sent photos, for a film dispute we sent PayTV logs. Your bank will then judge whether your friend "authorised" the transaction.
In reality, because well-run hotels have good paper trails, the only reason we get successful chargebacks against us are as a result of card fraud.
Thank's, it seems there may be some importance to whether a registration card is completed and a card is swiped on check in? Believe it or not neither is the case.
Yes, obviously if they have your details some other way (via internet booking or a company booking) then there is no need for them to have them again.
[quote=Obukit;16602557]At the hotel I work at we have a Barclay's merchant account. At check-in guests sign a registration card authorising the hotel to charge the card all charges, including extras and payment for accommodation in event of non-payment by a stipulated party. It will be this "authorisation" the hotel will be using when charging your friend's card.quote]
Again this seems to be the basis for charging after guests have departed, as no registration card was completed, nor swipe taken, it is clealry unauthorised.
Yes, obviously if they have your details some other way (via internet booking or a company booking) then there is no need for them to have them again.
As I said they took the details from the card used when checking out.
This may well be the easiest way to secure the refund as only the bill correctly presented was authorised.
I think I'll stay thanks !
Think Withabix might be right about the porn !!
Another vote for the porn ... maybe it was not fit for purpose? :confused:
:p
Again this seems to be the basis for charging after guests have departed, as no registration card was completed, nor swipe taken, it is clealry unauthorised.
In that case ring your bank again and say that you wish to do a chargeback - do not accept that it is authorised and ask to see proof. If the hotel are unwilling to make a refund, only your bank can sort it for you.
Be aware though that if a chargeback is successful the hotel may consider taking the matter to the police or to civil claims if they feel you owe them money. Does the hotel not have a head office you could write to? It really would be a lot easier to get it sorted this way, assuming you have a good reason for getting a refund.
In that case ring your bank again and say that you wish to do a chargeback - do not accept that it is authorised and ask to see proof. If the hotel are unwilling to make a refund, only your bank can sort it for you.
Be aware though that if a chargeback is successful the hotel may consider taking the matter to the police or to civil claims if they feel you owe them money. Does the hotel not have a head office you could write to? It really would be a lot easier to get it sorted this way, assuming you have a good reason for getting a refund.
Thanks again, it's not so much the money (190; lot's of porn), it's more the principle and for future reference. The hotel is privately owned and not part of a chain. There is certainly no concern over any further action the hotel may take.
If the charges are not valid and have not been authorised by the card holder, then the hotel has no right to charge you. Simply speak to your Card Provider and dispute the transactions, they should complete a chargeback.
By not telling us what the charges are then we cannot say whether they are valid or not. But in answer to your question if they are NOT valid then the hotelier has no right to place them.
Hope that makes sense.
By not telling us what the charges are then we cannot say whether they are valid or not.
He's owned up in his last post ;)
For 190 I'd want Virtual Reality (or the barmaid) at the very least.
If it's porn, I would dispute the charge.
How many nights did you stay? 190 is a lot of films!
Did you view any...errr...premium rate channels, even to preview? If so, how many times? Could anyone else in the room have accidentally viewed those channels?
If the channels WERE viewed, you will have agreed to the charges when you accessed the films.
Do a chargeback. They will probably back down as I doubt they've incurred any costs and virtual services are rather hard to prove.
Thought it easier to humour you, worked eh!
If the charges are not valid and have not been authorised by the card holder, then the hotel has no right to charge you. Simply speak to your Card Provider and dispute the transactions, they should complete a chargeback.
By not telling us what the charges are then we cannot say whether they are valid or not. But in answer to your question if they are NOT valid then the hotelier has no right to place them.
Hope that makes sense.
Did not ask for people's opinion on whether they are valid, did post what credit card company said when contacted. But thanks anyway.
On contacting his credit card company he was advised that hoteliers retain the right within the t's & c's to charge outstanding amounts without the card holders specific authorisation. Examples of reasons given were to allow the hotelier to charge for damage or drinks taken from a bar, only discovered after departure.
This is what you have said the Card Provider have said and this sounds correct. However, if the charges are not valid then they do NOT have this right.
I think your answer lies in whether the charges are valid or not, but as you do not want to discuss this there is not a lot more that can be said.
Seems to me to be fairly pointless coming onto an open forum to ask advice and when people try to help get knocked back because of the reluctance to post what could be important information and assist others in trying to help you, or point you in the right direction at least.
If you have a valid case against the company I hope you get every penny back and maybe something more for your troubles. However, if it's a case of trying to elude something you are responsible for then I trust the card company will see right through you.
Thought it easier to humour you, worked eh!
Did the porn work then?
Please answer these simple questions:
Did you receive the goods or services for which they charged you?
Were the goods or services a compulsory addition to the room rate you booked?
How did you book?
What is the name/location of the hotel?
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